# Unveiling the True Self: Beyond Ego and Illusion

- Show: [Stillness in the Storms](https://stillnessinthestorms.com/), a podcast with Steven Webb
- Episode: 137
- Published: 8 January 2025
- Length: 21:15 (about 21 minutes)
- Subject: Buddhist & Spiritual Wisdom
- Web page: https://stillnessinthestorms.com/episode/unveiling-the-true-self-beyond-ego-and-illusion
- Listen: [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unveiling-the-true-self-beyond-ego-and-illusion/id1467889656?i=1000683187988), [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/5Q4LN7Ev2CwTMzxj8jlFmN), [MP3](https://podcasts.captivate.fm/media/c056d8b2-c666-482e-94c6-66ea3b1e054c/EP-137-Discovering-the-True-Self.mp3)

Who is the you underneath the you? There is a self below the ego, and the ego is the part doing all the suffering.

Ask who Steven is and the false self answers first. Podcast host. Councillor. Meditator. Man in a wheelchair. All of that is memory doing the job it evolved for, remembering where the bear was. Underneath it is something with no desires and no story, and you can find the edge of it right now. Are you aware of your left toe? You were not, and then you were. Now widen that until it is not pointed at anything. Not warm, not cosy. Just there, and it does not come and go.

**One thing to try:** Be aware of your left toe. Then let the awareness spread until it is not aimed at anything at all.

## In this episode

- (2:48) The false self answers first, every time
- (4:09) Memory evolved to remember the bear
- (5:35) It does not feel warm or cosy, and that is the point
- (6:18) Are you aware of your left toe
- (7:56) I cannot see beyond me. But I can experience it
- (9:16) Aware of everything and of nothing at once
- (11:17) The ego is the part that suffers
- (12:55) The only self that truly has your back
- (17:00) The passage, read aloud

Support the podcast and join the Weekly Calm: [stevenwebb.uk](https://stevenwebb.uk)

Thank you for listening.

Steven

## The question this answers

Who is the you underneath the you?

There is a self below the ego, and the ego is the part doing all the suffering. This is a hard one to talk about, because at this level words start failing. Hundreds of books have had a go and I failed to follow most of them, and here I am having a go anyway.

## The heart of it

- Ask who Steven is and the false self answers first. Podcast host, councillor, meditator, man in a wheelchair.
- The ego is not a fault. It is memory doing the job it evolved for, which was remembering where the bear was.

None of that story is tangible. No surgeon could open my head and find Steven in there. Something goes wrong in the brain tomorrow and somebody asks who Steven is and I might have no idea.

Rupert Spira has a way of pointing at the other thing, and you can do it now. Are you aware of your left toe? Notice what you just did. You went to the toe, became aware of it, then answered.

Now the harder one. Are you aware? Slow down and notice the gap between the question and your answer.

That gap is not aware of anything in particular. Not my voice, not the room. Aware of everything and of nothing. Awareness with nothing pointed at.

I met it once without meaning to. When I dived in and broke my neck, I lay on the bottom of that pool, and after the oxygen went and the panic went, there was a moment where I did not fear anything and did not want anything. I did not think I was dying and I did not think I was alive. There was no me and the pool and the people and the earth. There was just awareness. It might have been four seconds or ten milliseconds. It felt like a minute.

I could not talk about that for about twenty five years, because it sounds like the sort of thing that gets your breath smelled.

> It does not feel warm and it does not feel cosy, because it does not feel. It has no desires and no story, and it does not come and go.

Ask yourself what real love actually feels like. I think honestly it is: I am safe, I can be vulnerable, I will not be judged, and somebody has my back. That is what this is, without any of the giving of gifts.

## One small thing to try

Be aware of your left toe. Then let the awareness spread until it is not aimed at anything at all.

Then just take a breath and let go of everything, and notice what is still there when the wanting stops. It is quiet and it is vast and it is equally small.

The ego comes and goes, and so do loneliness and excitement and joy. This does not.

## Questions people ask

### Is this the same as the soul?

I would not use that word for it, mostly because it drags a lot of other beliefs along with it. What I can say is that it is what remains when you stop adding.

### Is the ego bad?

Not at all. It is why you function, why you remember, why you got through childhood. It is only a problem when you think it is all there is.

### I tried the awareness question and got nothing.

Then you probably did it. There is nothing to find, which is what makes it so difficult to explain and so easy to walk past.

## Chapters

- 0:08 Understanding the True Self
- 2:10 Understanding the True Self
- 7:33 Understanding the Big Mind
- 9:42 The Nature of Awareness and the Ego
- 12:50 Understanding the True Self
- 19:10 Discovering True Self and Inner Peace

## Transcript

[0:03] Hello, and how are you doing? I'm Steven Webb, and this is Stillness in the Storms. And on this episode, I want to talk about the true self. And it's not an easy thing to talk about, because I think at this level of understanding who we are, words fail us. And there's been hundreds of books, there's been Zen masters and Buddhist teachers and everybody that are way wiser and know way more about this stuff than me explained it in so many different ways, and I failed to understand most of them. And I'm now going to try to explain it to you. And I totally get the irony in this because it's something that you can you can feel it, but it doesn't actually feel it like feel anything has no emotion. It's kind of there. It has our backs no matter what. It's that love that we seek. It's that joy that we want to be in. It's that safety and that that safety net that we have when we want to be vulnerable it's that It's that person that we want when we're feeling lonely or down. It's that person we want when things are not going our way. It's the love that we want from our partner is a love that we want from a family remember it's the it's It's all of those things, and it's always there. Yet why is it so elusive to so many? And why was it so elusive to me most of my life? And now it's still elusive most of the time, yet it's always present, always there. Always. It's not even waiting, it's it's just there anyway, whether or not we go there, it's there anyway. So I'm talking about the true self. I'm talking about there's something below the ego. And why is

[2:16] it so important to experience this and understand this? Well, if your spiritual journey wants you to suffer less if if you're on the spiritual journey because you've suffered enough, then you're going to want to experience, you're going to want to understand the true self. So what is the true self? Well that's it's easier to explain. What's the false self? The false self is. Is your story, your egos, it's who you think you are. If someone comes to me and goes, who's Steven The false self is. I'm Steven. I'm a podcast. I'm a podcast host. I'm a city councillor I'm a meditator. I'm these things. I'm in a wheelchair and all those things. My name is Steven and I was born so and so. Well, that's false, it's true in the sense that it's a story, it's in my mind, it's tangible there.

[3:17] No surgeon could ever open my brain and find Steven. It doesn't really exist in that way. And if I have something go, malfunction in my brain tomorrow, some kind of neuro disorder like a stroke or something, I might wake up and someone go, who's Steven I'm like, I don't know. No idea um So it's not a tangible thing, but we think it's tangible. We think it's incredibly real. And why is that? Because it serves a purpose. It serves a brilliant purpose of survival. So if you go down to the woods and you got almost eaten by a bear and you come home to your camp and you didn't have a story of remembering that you're going to get down to the woods the next day and you're going to be eaten by a bear because the bear is going to remember you come down every day. You better sure as hell remember that the bear is waiting. So that's why a memory evolved. Nowadays that memory's evolved into a career and a person and all these whims and what we like and what we prefer and what we want. All those things. A whole big story.

[4:29] We write whole books, we write autobiographies. We do all these things. We tell our stories of who people are and how they are and what they're like and then we guess We have star signs, for Christ's sake you know we We do the enneagrams and we do all these things about personalities not It's all ego, it's all how we interpret the world around us and then what we do with it. That's what I'm not talking about. So what am I talking about? So if you take a deep breath and just go, ah. Just let everything go. And you just literally gazed in the thin air. You know that moment when you're just literally, you're not thinking, you're not doing anything and you're literally just. It's somewhat between asleep and um being present. You know, you're not asleep, but you just have no motivation to move or do anything.

[5:30] You're just being. And there's no desires, there's no things they've got to move. We've got to do anything. It's just, ah. There's a moment when it doesn't feel warm, it doesn't feel cozy, it doesn't feel nice because it doesn't feel. It doesn't have no desires, it doesn't have a Desire to improve the world or a desire to run and hide. It just is 100% present with what's now. It's just awareness itself, just aware. And Rupert Spira has a wonderful way of pointing you towards it. And what he does, he says, and you can do this now. So no matter what you're doing, even if you're driving, you can do this. Just make sure you keep concentrating on your driving as well. But if I said to you, are you aware of your left toe?

[6:33] Now if you consider what you did, to become aware of your left toe, you had to think about your left toe, you had to go to your left toe, you had to then become aware of it. And then you had to answer the question, am I aware of my left toe? If I said to you, are you aware of something that's behind you? So you've got a plant pot, like I have, you have to go to what's behind you. You weren't aware of it before now, then of course you knew it was there, but you weren't actively aware of it being there. Now, hopefully you're keeping up because I'm struggling to keep up but That's okay. I've struggled to keep up with the zed world for my whole life. Yet they all say it's so simple, really. So why so many books roll on it? And people go, what? Anyway, come back to my little ego trying to understand the world it It is when we take a step back and look at it on the big picture. The big mind just, it's.

[7:41] It's not. The small mind is so easy to see and understand. The big mind is impossible to see and understand from the small mind perspective. And the small mind is the ego. That's me I can't see the big mind. I cannot see there beyond me because my only frame of reference is me. But we can experience it. And this is what I'm doing. So going back to the experiencing. So if I said to you, are you aware? And you'll probably come back with, some of you might say yes, Some of you might say no. I should imagine, knowing my listeners, knowing you, I should imagine you come back, yeah, I'm aware. Now I want you to slow down, I want you to pause because I want you to see a little moment. I want you to feel the experience of between the question and your answer.

[8:39] So I'm going to ask you again, are you aware? So what did that feel like? What was there? What was in that moment between the question and just before you answer the question now then, the More you practice this the more you do this, you'll probably find that there's just awareness itself. But what is awareness itself? Suddenly the whole world opens up, the whole field. Suddenly you're not aware of anything in particular. You're not aware of my voice, you're not aware of whatever you're doing in front of you. But you're aware of everything at the same time, yet aware of nothing. So it's a non-focused awareness And I think that's what is in normal circumstances without having some kind of dramatic effect, some dramatic craziness going on. Like when I dived into the swimming pool and I broke my neck. And when I landed on the bottom of the pool, after a while, I I couldn't explain this for nearly 25 years.

[9:53] And I after a while, I run out of oxygen, I run out of panic. I thought I was going to die. And then suddenly, ah, okay. And then suddenly I I didn't fear anything, I didn't desire anything. I didn't think I'm going to die. I didn't think I was alive. I become the water and the pool. I become the people around me and But it wasn't the fact that I become water in the pool. It was the fact there was no me and them and there was no me story and the pool and the earth and the universe. It was just awareness. And it may have lasted, I don't know, four seconds or it might have been 10 milliseconds, I have no idea. But it felt like about a minute or so.

[10:50] And I never really thought much of it because I thought if I explained this to people they're going you're crazy, you know, you become the water. And they'd probably smell my breath as I'm like, yeah, what's going on? And I know I certainly would for many years, but it wasn't until I started to really read books and study and I was suffering so badly 10-15 years ago that I wanted to reduce my suffering. And in doing that, I discovered through meditation and different practices that there's a self below all this ego. And it's the ego that does all the suffering. It's the ego that's in pain. It's the ego that has the desires. It's the ego that wants love. It's the ego that wants to love. It's the ego that puts all the importance on all these stories and purpose and everything below that. There is no ego. There is no, you know, when you're one month old, there's no ego it's just survival. Ego comes In um a few months later, and then suddenly becomes more solidified in the one two year three years old, and then suddenly you're now 30, 40, 50 years old and. Yeah, here we go. The ego's alive and well and a tangible thing that has to live and survive and has to get what it wants. Yeah, the ego doesn't even like to think it's fluid. It doesn't even like to think that it can change and morph and grow and all those things. It's no, I'm fixed, I'm solid, I'm here and I'm real. Of course it thinks that, because it has to do that to survive. It has to do that to function in the real world. But why do I talk about this lower self? And I've got a poem I'm going to read in a minute, but just before I read that, I want you to relax into a little bit of a state of just here, now and present. So why is it so important to understand this that the true self? Well, the true self is the only real self that has our back.

[13:01] It's the only one that does truly know how to love. But not love in the way of an ego love. It doesn't give us gifts, it doesn't make us excited doesn't do all those other things. It's not exciting love. It's not all those kind of things. It's not desires. It's just if I was to ask you, what does real love feel like? And I think if we're really honest, real love feels like I feel safe. I feel like I can be vulnerable, I can be myself and I'm not going to be judged. I feel like I can do something brave and you got my back. I feel like I can be in someone else's company if they truly love me. And I don't have to think or worry or I don't have to. And it's complete, total acceptance. So on that basis of love and complete, total acceptance of who you are entirely, no matter what you're going through in life, no matter how vulnerable you are in a changing circumstances and in circumstances that are certainly uncertain at the moment, even in a relationship and everything in the world of economics and politics and everything like the moment, I can't think of a more uncertain world than we have right now, especially for fragile egos. So if you take a deep breath and you get done and you just relax, what are you left with you're You're truly left with this place of, ah, okay, Breathing in, calm, breathing out, relax. And you're Just truly left with a place of nothingness, their desires, wants.

[15:06] But it's always there. It's peaceful. It's quiet. It's vastness. It's huge. It's equally small. It has no boundaries. It has no whims. It has no story. It's just. It doesn't come and go. It's always there. What comes and goes is the ego. The ego and the whims that we think is tangible, that comes and goes or the feelings of loneliness and the feelings of excitement and joy and happiness, they all come and go. Does this come and get this a real essence. I'm going to read a poem to you now and just think of this place that doesn't technically exist in a tangible way. Your ego and life exists, but it's always there when we just, ah, take a deep breath and let go.

[16:08] So beneath the noise of wanting, the self waits untouched. It does not cry for safety, nor beg for love. It watches at the ego twist and tumbles, like a leaf in a storm. You run, seeking shelter, yet the shelter is still. It has no walls, no roof, no shape to cling to. It whispers, but not in words. I am here. You grasp at shadows, believing they hold substance. But substance dissolves. The essence remains. Breath enters, you hold it as though it could save you. Breath leaves, you let go, trusting the next will come.

[17:06] The night you seek carries no sword, no armor. It has no name. It is the space between your thoughts, unbroken by fear. In his arms there is no holding, only being. What you call love, it knows as silence. What you call courage, it knows as stillness. And when you stop searching, it is already found. Not a thing to hold, but a freedom of letting go. Not a gift given, but the gift of no need to receive. The true self is the wind that stirs the trees, invisible, ungraspable, yet always moving through you.

[18:08] So close your eyes and take a step back. There is nothing to catch, nothing to save, nothing to fear. Only this. And this is what all the Zen masters and so many others just, they all point to. This true self of nothing to save, nothing to fear. Only this. And this is that place. Right after I ask you the question, are you aware? Suddenly the world goes silent. Suddenly my voice disappears. Suddenly your desires and your fears and your wants. You know you want true peace.

[19:09] Discover your true self. Because there's nothing anybody can sell you. There's nothing anybody can give you. There's nothing anybody can wrap you in, hug you with. There's no sword for the night that's going to turn up that's going to give you more peace, more holding, more safety and allow you to be you than your true self that you hold within. And just by going there and just by letting go, that's it. Discover your true self. If you want true inner peace, it always has your back It's always there for you. And it will never, ever, ever let you down. Because it can't, it cannot not be there. I'm Steven Webb and I'm your host of Stillness in the Storms. And I've also got another podcast called Inner Peace Meditations that I add to quite regularly. And I've also got a course at the moment called Stillness in the Storms that I will put a link in the show notes. I just want to say thank you to all of you. Without you supporting me, treating me to coffee, I wouldn't be able to do this podcast. I wouldn't be able to do what I do, and I wouldn't be able to help people all over the world find a little more inner peace, find their true self and discover who they really are beneath all the noise and the tumbling and the suffering. So thank you.

[20:53] I deeply appreciate it and I love you. Take care. Have a good one

---

Every episode of Stillness in the Storms is listed at https://stillnessinthestorms.com/llms.txt. Weekly Calm, one calm email from Steven every Sunday: https://stevenwebb.com/newsletter/