Episode 155
When Jesus and the Buddha Sit at the Same Table
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In this episode I explore a question many people quietly carry. Can you love Jesus and still practise awareness. Can the comfort of Christian faith sit alongside the clarity of Buddhist teaching. Do you have to choose one path or can they both live in the same heart.
This conversation begins with the famous poem Footprints in the Sand and widens into a look at what truly carries us when life cracks open. I talk about Sunday school, my favourite childhood hymn, the years when I tried to get rid of all religion, and how awareness eventually softened everything.
We touch on the sermon on the Mount, the beauty held in Corinthians thirteen, the voice of the Buddha, and the simple human truth that all wisdom traditions point toward compassion and presence. The episode is really about how to build a spiritual toolbox that actually works, without throwing away the tools that once held you through the hardest nights.
If you have ever wondered whether your Christian faith can live peacefully beside meditation and Buddhist ideas, this episode will speak to you.
Quotes from the episode
“Anything that opens your heart and brings less suffering into the world is worth keeping.”
“You do not need to choose between Jesus and awareness. You can hold both. The presence beneath them is the same.”
“We suffer when we cling. We grow when we include.”
“Whatever carries you in the storms, honour it. Add more tools if they help. Nothing precious needs to be thrown away.”
“You can sit with Jesus and the Buddha at the same table. Trust me, they would get along.”
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Takeaways:
- In this episode, I explore the intersections between Jesus, Buddhism, and the Bible, sharing my personal journey with spirituality.
- I reflect on pivotal moments in my life that challenged my beliefs and how I came to appreciate different teachings.
- The idea that many religious teachings are not new but rather reinterpretations of universal truths is a central theme of my discussion.
- I emphasize the importance of community and support during difficult times, regardless of religious affiliation or beliefs.
- Compassion is key, whether in Christianity or Buddhism, and recognizing our shared humanity helps reduce suffering.
- I encourage listeners to embrace a diverse toolbox of beliefs, integrating various teachings that resonate personally.
Transcript
Welcome to Stillness in the Storms.
Speaker A:I'm Stephen Webb, your host.
Speaker A:And this episode's about Jesus and Buddhism and the Bible and about what carries us and helps us through the most difficult times.
Speaker A:And I'm going to talk about a few years in my life when I was going to get rid of all religion from the whole world and my changes.
Speaker A:And I might even tell you about my Sunday school years.
Speaker A:And I'll tell you about my favorite song that I sang at the top of my voice over every single song, no matter what song it was.
Speaker A:But just before I do that.
Speaker A:So I was asked a question by one of my donators and the question was, how does Jesus and God and the Bible fit in with these teachings?
Speaker A:And because they found a lot of comfort in their life in difficult times through those teachings.
Speaker A:And it's a great question and it's probably a question that I may not have asked myself directly, but at times that going through different teachers and different experiences and different books, you know, do you learn something new that helps us and then do we drop the old beliefs and things like that?
Speaker A:So it's a really important question and stick around for what I think about this and the way I tell you about my teaching and how I think and it's not my teaching, I'm just putting out there what I read and what works with me and everything else.
Speaker A:I don't think at this point any teaching is new.
Speaker A:I think if anybody tells you this is brand new teaching, it's just a different version of something else.
Speaker A:And I think what a wonderful time we are living on a planet when we can get to share this with so many people around the world.
Speaker A:So that moves me on to thanking Senga and Cheryl and Kelly and let me go down through the list and Trish and Noor and Addie and Kerry is Kerry that asked the question, so.
Speaker A:And Maybelline, her cat Maybelina and Greet and Tracy and Birdie, you guys are awesome and thank you so much.
Speaker A:And a little shout out to Vern, Addie's little one.
Speaker A:So how are you doing?
Speaker A:So okay.
Speaker A:And just bearing in mind that thank you to everybody that treats me to a coffee because it keeps the podcast free with no adverts.
Speaker A:But let's, let's get on with today's show and I'm going to go straight in with one of my favorite poems.
Speaker A:And if you grew up in the 80s and 90s, you would have seen this poem everywhere, a different form of it in some way.
Speaker A:And it was, and you'll know this poem the minute I start reading it.
Speaker A:But let's go to the end.
Speaker A:And this is the original full version of it because loads of versions come out a lot shorter.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:One night, a man had a dream.
Speaker A:He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Speaker A:Across the sky flashed scenes from his life.
Speaker A:For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand, one belonging to him and the other to the Lord.
Speaker A:When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked up at the footprints in the sand, and he noticed that many times along the path of his life, there was only one set of footprints.
Speaker A:He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in his life.
Speaker A:This really bothered him, and he questioned the Lord about it.
Speaker A:Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you, you would walk with me all the way.
Speaker A:But I noticed, and during those most troublesome times in life, there's only one set of footprints.
Speaker A:I don't understand why, when I needed you most, why would you leave me?
Speaker A:And the Lord replied, my son, my precious child, I love you and I would never leave you.
Speaker A:During your times of trial and suffering when you see only one set of footprints.
Speaker A:It was then that I carried you.
Speaker A: s wrote by Karen in Kharti in: Speaker A:And I remember in the 80s, especially in the 90s, you could buy that everywhere on little cards, inside the cards, on posters.
Speaker A:And I found much comfort in that.
Speaker A:I love that poem.
Speaker A:I still love that poem today.
Speaker A:And I suppose if you zoom out from the poem, what that poem gives us is a belief that something or someone's got our back.
Speaker A:That when things go wrong, someone's going to be there for us.
Speaker A:And I think that's what most religions come down to, whether it's Buddhism or Judaism or Hinduism, Christianity, all the different religions.
Speaker A:But it doesn't matter what religion.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter what the belief.
Speaker A:Even if you're an atheist, it's nice to believe that you believe something has your back.
Speaker A:It doesn't have to be a deity.
Speaker A:It doesn't have to be a God.
Speaker A:It could just be that nature itself, that you've got your back, that you believe in yourself.
Speaker A:It really doesn't matter.
Speaker A:So just that thought that, do you know what?
Speaker A:I'm doing okay?
Speaker A:And if I don't do okay, someone will pick me up.
Speaker A:And I remember going to Sunday school as a child, and I think it was more used as a babysitting for my mom, actually.
Speaker A:But that's a different story.
Speaker A:And I can't remember my parents Been overly religious.
Speaker A:It was growing up.
Speaker A:But I was christened, and so I am a Christian.
Speaker A:I was christened in Goodhaven Sunday school.
Speaker A:I know Sunday school.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was probably a Sunday thinking about it.
Speaker A:I had that little bit of water put on my face, on my forehead.
Speaker A:And I think growing up, we didn't grow up in a real religious family.
Speaker A:We didn't go to church regularly.
Speaker A:And that song that I used to sing all the time was Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam, and I'm not going to sing it now, but I literally sang that at the top of my voice at 4 or 5 years old to every single song that everybody else was singing.
Speaker A:And they just let me do it.
Speaker A:I suppose in time, when I broke my neck or when I lost my granddad to suicide, all those times, it didn't matter what there was in life, but knowing that something was there to catch my fall gives that reassurance, and it gives that little bit of faith that things are going to be okay.
Speaker A:You know, you don't mind trying.
Speaker A:You don't mind the bad times coming down the road if you know someone's there to carry you in some way.
Speaker A:And Buddhism's a little bit different because Buddhism is about believing in ourselves, believing that these hard times are not necessarily true.
Speaker A:A lot of it comes down to our thinking and the way we see things.
Speaker A:And a lot of it comes down to the bigger mind, which is collective, rather than the small mind with the ego, which is all about suffering.
Speaker A:Oh, poor me, what's going to happen to me where I'm the victim and suffering?
Speaker A:That's where the Buddhism sees it different.
Speaker A:But it doesn't mean to say that someone has it on your back.
Speaker A:The ego will be okay because the ego has the ego, if that makes any sense at all.
Speaker A:You know, 10,000 voices.
Speaker A:I speak about this on my podcast.
Speaker A:One of those voices will have your back somewhere.
Speaker A:When the other voices say, hey, I'm alone.
Speaker A:I need help, one of the other voices would come along.
Speaker A:And that doesn't mean to say you've got, like a load of voices in your head and you're crazy as long as you realize that their voice is within your head and they're not coming from somebody else and telling you what to do.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You're perfectly fine with the voices, the conversations.
Speaker A:It's perfectly fine, perfectly normal.
Speaker A:Well, I hope it's normal anyway, because that's what I've got.
Speaker A:So I suppose the deeper question is, can I belong here?
Speaker A:Can I carry the faith of Christianity and all that, that helped so brilliantly when broken or when things were going possibly wrong.
Speaker A:And where does Jesus fit in?
Speaker A:You know, my relationship with Jesus, what an awesome guy, what a stand up guy.
Speaker A:Back in that time he had a lot of Buddhism thinking he may have even been a Buddhist with reading in his library and all that.
Speaker A:When he'd become the librarian, you know, perhaps he should have stayed a carpenter.
Speaker A:It might have been.
Speaker A:Life might have been a bit easier for him and he may not have been crucified, but it's very much.
Speaker A:He was very compassionate and understanding to others.
Speaker A:His perspective was bang on.
Speaker A:When it's like they forgive them, they don't know what they're doing because they realize most people are going through life from their subconscious mind with no awareness whatsoever.
Speaker A:Most people are doing the, you know, driving the car from A to B and they can't remember half the journey.
Speaker A:That's what we're doing most of our lives.
Speaker A:And I'm still doing that now.
Speaker A:So please don't think that I'm aware all the time.
Speaker A:I'm absolutely not.
Speaker A:My, my depth is not that deep at all in any way, but I'm working on it.
Speaker A:I can imagine most of my listeners are a lot deeper than me.
Speaker A:You know, you probably meditate more than me.
Speaker A:You probably listen to my inner peace meditations and think, yeah, he's got a long way to go.
Speaker A:But coming back to my relationship.
Speaker A:So in my 30s, I come across the book called God Delusion and I read it and I was so eager to eradicate the whole world of religion.
Speaker A:Religion's nonsense, get rid of it and all that.
Speaker A:But that didn't mean to say I didn't believe in a person called Jesus.
Speaker A:I didn't believe in some of the stories when not in the literal sense, but in the philosophical sense of why the stories were told.
Speaker A:That's what makes sense that the Bible was an incredible book, wrote over 2, 300 years of stories and things like that.
Speaker A:That really did help to explain a lot of what they could see at that time from that level of perspective.
Speaker A:And the same as the other religious teachings.
Speaker A:And even now we're only ever.
Speaker A:Every book that's ever wrote is wrote at the level and altitude of that person.
Speaker A:You pick up some books and you're like, I haven't got a clue what that was about.
Speaker A:Or maybe because the altitude is slightly higher.
Speaker A:I remember reading Eckhart Tolle's book the Power of Now and the first time I read it was probably a good number of years ago.
Speaker A:And I Was like, what the hell is all this?
Speaker A:The guy is a nutter.
Speaker A:Half the time I have no idea.
Speaker A:And just the seeing your thoughts and I had no idea, you know, I was, that was so beyond me at that time.
Speaker A:And then after meditating and having a couple of teachers and all that kind of explain it to me and explain what the presence moment now is.
Speaker A:We're forever in the now and accept the moment and things like that.
Speaker A:I went back and read his book probably six, seven years later and it made more sense to me because I'd moved up to where he was or nearly.
Speaker A:I wouldn't say I was ever where he is, but I was more relating to his level of understanding.
Speaker A:And so that's the same with all books.
Speaker A:Everything is wrote, even scientific books, even novels.
Speaker A:And you know, you write.
Speaker A:If you're going to write a book for a child, you write it at the child's level.
Speaker A:If you're going to write a scientific book about science, you write it for the audience.
Speaker A:You got all the best, but you're never going to.
Speaker A:If you're writing a self help book or writing a psychology book or something like that, you write it at the best level, you know.
Speaker A:And very often we think we're at the highest level.
Speaker A:I am now there because we can't see any levels above us and we very often don't see the levels below us because we forget where we've come from.
Speaker A:But that's a whole different podcast.
Speaker A:Let me know if you want a podcast about levels and things like that.
Speaker A:But my relationship with Jesus, you know, what a stand up guy.
Speaker A:I include him in my teachings, you know, his Sermon on the Mount, you know, talking about compassion and seeing himself is.
Speaker A:It runs parallel.
Speaker A:I find comfort in the poems and verses, especially verses from the Bible.
Speaker A:So it's In Corinthians, chapter 13, and I think it's been loosely translated to if I speak in tongues of humans, of angels, but do not have love, I have nothing.
Speaker A:If the faith strong enough to move mountains, but do not have love, I have nothing.
Speaker A:And if I give everything I own to others but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Speaker A:And it's the same as Buddhism.
Speaker A:Buddhism is about compassion.
Speaker A:Having compassion for yourself as you are and having compassion for others as they are.
Speaker A:You very often talk about Buddhism as I think the Buddha was asked one day, how do I know when I'm enlightened?
Speaker A:And after a while, several monks put out their hands and says, well, when I can recognize the tree in a shadow in the morning sunrise, He Went no.
Speaker A:And then one of the monks looked up and said, when I recognize everybody is my brother and what he means by that is recognizing that everybody else is just another version of us.
Speaker A:They may not have the same problems with, they may not have the same upbringing, they may not have the same relationships, they may not have the same levels of money and things like that.
Speaker A:Different religions, different countries, they may look completely different, but they're just a human suffering in the same way, trying to, trying to find their way, trying to find their purpose, trying to get through the day with what they have playing their cards.
Speaker A:As I said on one of my last podcasts, so when it comes down to, with Buddhism and Jesus and the Bible, it doesn't say it cannot sit alongside.
Speaker A:You don't have to choose one or the other then if you're going to become a Buddhist monk and sit in retreat and maybe I don't know what the criteria is for that, but, but I know that you can go and sit in a cathedral as a Buddhist monk and open your heart.
Speaker A:And I know no monastery would turn away any Christian, any Western belief.
Speaker A:They just go, okay, that's fine, as long as it opens our heart, opens our awareness and we have less suffering and we cause less suffering in the world.
Speaker A:I think that's important.
Speaker A:And when you cause less suffering in the world, I'm not just talking about being kind to others, I'm really talking about cause less suffering for yourself, forgive yourself, be at peace with yourself, laugh at yourself.
Speaker A:See the craziness in who you are, the craziness in your ego.
Speaker A:Play with that.
Speaker A:See the craziness when we're anxious and that six, seven year old self is trying to fix the world as mine is all the time.
Speaker A:You know, I get to about 10 o' clock at night, feel really emotional, really long hard day, and that seven year old pops up and goes, yep, it'll never be enough that I'm trying to fix the whole world and you haven't even started.
Speaker A:And I'm like, ah.
Speaker A:And I used to be really bothered by it because I used to believe that seven year old self is me.
Speaker A:Now it's not.
Speaker A:That seven year old self is the seven year old self then and now I just have a little chat with him, give him a hug and say, how are you doing?
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not enough, mate.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Yeah, we're working on it.
Speaker A:It's the same with the anxious version of you and all the other things of you.
Speaker A:All those 10,000 voices that come up, they all come from Somewhere, just sit down with them and go, ah, how you doing?
Speaker A:Nice to see you back for a while.
Speaker A:Nice that you're keeping me true.
Speaker A:Does that help?
Speaker A:And does that, does that understand that if what you're really asking is.
Speaker A:And it goes with any religion, you know, pull up a seat, enjoy, relax.
Speaker A:You can have different beliefs.
Speaker A:It really doesn't matter.
Speaker A:The awareness is what matters.
Speaker A:It's, am I aware?
Speaker A:Am I here?
Speaker A:Am I seeing things for what they are?
Speaker A:Am I adding unicorns?
Speaker A:Am I adding fairies that probably don't exist now?
Speaker A:Then I don't believe in a God.
Speaker A:I don't disbelieve in a God because I don't know there's no God.
Speaker A:And I went through my atheist days, but I give up trying to prove there was no God because I couldn't.
Speaker A:So I don't know if it's.
Speaker A:I don't know about an afterlife.
Speaker A:I'm not worried about any of those things because I'm more worried about this podcast right now.
Speaker A:You know, I don't know how long I've done.
Speaker A:I can see the timer.
Speaker A:That's what I'm thinking about.
Speaker A:And maybe my belly later.
Speaker A:Why am I gonna have a tea?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Anyway, back to the podcast.
Speaker A:I'm not worried about the afterlife.
Speaker A:I'm not worried about whether there's a God or whether it's not.
Speaker A:Why do feel that there's little me, little Stevie, the little ego, the podcast host, the Cornwall counselor, the city councillor, the fixer, the whatever I am, all these things, the person in the wheelchair, all those things.
Speaker A:And when we just take a breath and step back.
Speaker A:And I think that's what Jesus was pointed to, seeing things as they are in the true sense of as they are.
Speaker A:And awareness just deepens your ability to recognize the presence that carries you.
Speaker A:And that's what it is, is that presence underneath everything.
Speaker A:And this is where I'm going to leave with a metaphor.
Speaker A:And I think that the best ideal we can ever get to of humans is to become as whole as we can.
Speaker A:And to become whole, that's to include.
Speaker A:That's to include all of our anxieties and all our voices and all the things that make us human, but not be attached to any of them, not become any of them, just include them.
Speaker A:And I think the great meta for that is if you're going to build a house or you're going to do something, you're going to need a toolbox, but there isn't one company that builds all the tools you need for the house.
Speaker A:The people that do the hammers and chisel don't build the bricks.
Speaker A:You have to shop around and you include it all.
Speaker A:And I wouldn't throw out some of the spanners and tools to put in a hammer when you might need the other things.
Speaker A:Okay, I don't know if you need a spanner for the build a house, but you know what I mean.
Speaker A:You know, include the tools.
Speaker A:And if you're sitting down and you want to embrace Jesus and the holding you and do it, it's fine.
Speaker A:And bring in Buddha as well.
Speaker A:He will sit down and have a cup of coffee with them both.
Speaker A:You know, they'll all enjoy it.
Speaker A:Trust me.
Speaker A:You know, if there's an afterlife, they're all up there sitting around the same table.
Speaker A:You know, they're comparing what they got right, what they got wrong, things like that.
Speaker A:It's your toolbox.
Speaker A:You include what you like, you include what's comfortable with you.
Speaker A:But what I would say is don't include just one teacher's stuff.
Speaker A:You know, take my teaching with a pincer salt.
Speaker A:And my teaching is just a hash of different other people's teachings, Bits from books, bits from YouTube videos, bits from everywhere.
Speaker A:And it's all just stuff that has resonated with me and given me a bigger heart, more understanding, and less suffering.
Speaker A:And when I suffer less, I bring less suffering to the world and I can just smile and I can hug more and I can enjoy life more, and I can take things less seriously.
Speaker A:And I think that's the ultimate aim, to fill your toolbox from what you like, enjoy.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter what the tradition is, but no toolbox has to be just one tradition.
Speaker A:You don't have to cling to that.
Speaker A:Does that help?
Speaker A:I hope that helps.
Speaker A:And just if you want to support this podcast, go to stephenweb.uk the links underneath.
Speaker A:There's also a link to inner peace meditations.
Speaker A:And I brought out recently your morning cold meditation and a meditation to help you along a really tough journey or a path or something, which is just sitting down and recognizing the path that you're on is okay, whatever that path is.
Speaker A:And I got the inspiration from that, from the 12 steps where when someone mentioned to me in those meetings that they've been sharing my meditations, so I thought, can I do a meditation for them?
Speaker A:And this is about anybody that's on a journey of any kind.
Speaker A:And sometimes you waver because it's not smooth.
Speaker A:So just head over to Inner Peace Meditations on the link on stephenweb.uk swabavy Anyway, it's in the show notes.
Speaker A:I've got nothing else left to say now, apart from thank you.
Speaker A:Your support is awesome and I love you.
