What is your anger actually saying? My teacher Jun Po told me he has never known an angry person who did not care.
Sit with that one. Anger is the bodyguard. It steps in to put something right, to stop it happening again, to defend what matters. Throw the hammer away and you have thrown away an emotion that evolution spent a very long time building. A child is furious about a red T-shirt when they wanted green, and to them the world just ended. When you are in a life where things go wrong fast, the gap between the spark and the fire shrinks. But it is a gap, and it can be widened.
One thing to try: Instead of arguing, say six words. I see you care deeply. Why?
In this episode
(4:07) Throw away the hammer and you throw away the tool
(5:20) A red T-shirt when they wanted green
(7:49) Anger is the bodyguard that steps in
(9:22) Do you really believe that, Steven
(10:11) When there is no time between spark and reaction
(11:29) There is a gap, and it does not have to become a fire
(14:09) I see you care deeply. Tell me why
(15:40) Sitting down with people I disagree with over a cup of tea
(18:59) Anger does not need banishing. It needs hearing
With gratitude to
Alice, Kim in the Yukon, Maya, Ken, Linda and Michael, the regulars Laura and Stuart, and new monthly supporters Sue, Jude, Jenna and Mia, and Rita
Support the podcast and join the Weekly Calm: stevenwebb.uk
Thank you for listening.
Steven
The question this answers
What is your anger actually telling you?
My teacher Jun Po once looked at a room of us and said this. I have not been able to put it down since.
I have never known an angry person who did not care.
Jun Po Denis Kelly
Think of every time you have lost your temper. Underneath it there was something you cared about, and something you were trying to protect.
The heart of it
Anger is the bodyguard. It steps in to stop something happening again, and there is always something softer behind it.
It is the second feeling, never the first. Hurt or fear or not being heard came before it.
The gap between the spark and the fire can be widened. That is what the practice is for.
I use a hammer for this. In your toolbox a hammer is a brilliant thing. Used to smash something that did not need smashing, it is terrible. Decide you will never be angry again and you have thrown the hammer out of a toolbox that needed it.
There is nothing wrong with a hammer. It is what you do with it.
Without angry people we would not have a voting system worth the name. Nothing changes without somebody being angry about it first. You should be angry about starving children.
Where it goes wrong is early. A two year old is furious because they wanted the green shirt and you brought the red one, and to them the world has genuinely ended. It is uncomfortable to watch, so we say calm down, and they learn that anger itself is the bad thing.
Anger is always the second feeling.
I am not above any of this. I got tetchy with my parents recently over something small. What I was actually feeling was that they were not giving me credit for what I know. What I was thinking at the time was simply that I was right. And I was doing the very same thing back to them.
Where things go really wrong is when the gap closes. Live somewhere that things can go wrong fast and there is almost no time between what happens and how you answer it. It is still a gap though, and it can be widened.
Your anger is not your enemy. It is a frightened part of you in armour, doing the only job it has ever learned.
One small thing to try
Next time somebody is angry at you, do not defend yourself. Say six words instead. I can see you care. Why?
Then stop talking. The anger has nowhere to go, because you have walked round the bodyguard and spoken to the thing it was guarding. I have sat over a cup of tea with Reform members, Conservatives and Greens, and I am a Liberal Democrat, so we start miles apart. Ask that question and it nearly always comes back to something they care about, often something from a long time ago.
And for yourself, one quieter question. Not who is to blame. What am I really trying to protect?
Questions people ask
Are you saying I should never get angry?
The opposite. Anger built better things than calm ever has. What I am against is throwing the tool away, and using it on people who did not need hitting.
Does asking why they care actually work?
It works more often than defending yourself does, which is a low bar but a real one. It only works if you then shut up and listen.
Is there a meditation with this one?
Yes. It is called Space Before You React, over on Inner Peace Meditations. A few minutes practising the gap does more than any amount of me explaining it.
Read along
The transcript
It follows the audio. Press any line to jump there.
anger · compassion · relationships
Read the transcript
My teacher, Jun Po, once looked directly at us and said a line that, to be honest, I've never been
able to put down. He said, I've never known an angry person who did not care.
And just sit with that for a second.
So you think about it, every angry person you ever met, every time you've lost your own temper,
underneath it, there has been something you cared deeply about.
So here's the question that can take the wind out of almost any row that I use,
if I remember. Next time someone is angry at you, instead of defending yourself,
instead of putting your guard up, try this. Say to them, I can see you care. Tell me why.
Tell me why it matters so much to you And
watch what happens. The anger has nowhere to go because you have walked around the bodyguard. You have
spoken directly to the thing it was guarding Hello,
I'm Steven? Webb, and this is Stillness in the Storms, the podcast helps you find some, just some of that
firm ground in difficult times. No fluff, no quick fixes, just honest, down-to-earth wisdom from someone who
living it every single day.
Same as you. But just before we get into it, let me say a proper thank you to the people
who keep this podcast completely advert-free.
This time it's Alice, Kim up in Yukon, Maya, Ken, Linda, Michael, along with a few
kind people that chose to stay nameless. Thank you. And including one wonderfully generous gift
I can only thank quietly, I gotta be honest. And to the regulars who keep this
going month after month, people like Laura, and steward and so many more of you,
thank you so much. You are the reason it stays free. And finally, a warm welcome to a few who
started supporting this monthly. Sue, Jade, Jenna, and Mia, and Rita. You guys are awesome.
Lovely to have you with us all.
So there are others. You are awesome.
If you would like to join them or you've got something on your mind or an idea for meditation, just
head over to StevenWebb.uk. It's in the show notes, and I always do answer. So let's get on with the
podcast. time So hot over in the Uk and Europe at the moment, but we're here. We're showing up. as
you know, I love analogies, and it just puts something in my brain that just makes more sense to me.
If it's a wall of text or diagram I find it really hard to understand. But when someone puts up
an analogy, I'm like how I get it now. Now it makes sense So a good analogy I've always used
for anger is a hammer. You
know, the hammer is anger, and used correctly in your toolbox, it's an incredible tool.
Used incorrectly, used to do damage, used to smash things down when they're not supposed to be done,
then it's a terrible tool.
You're using it in the wrong way. Above all, it's not the tool's fault, but you need a tool in
your toolbox and I think having becoming that calmer person that you no longer have that anger
in your toolbox, you're not whole. Your toolbox is not whole. All your emotions are not
complete in a way that makes us brilliant humans. To throw away the hammer and
go, I'm never going to get angry again. I'm never going to get frightened again. I'm never going to get
anxious again you're throwing away incredibly evolved emotions that have done incredible things in the past.
Without people being angry, we would never have a better voting system. Without people being angry, nothing would ever
change. Without people being angry we've never developed democracy Without being people being angry,
we'll never improve on the democracy that seems to be going a bit sideways at the moment. But you should
be angry at starving children. You should be angry at abuses and all that hurt humans or animals or the
planet There's nothing wrong with a hammer. It's what you do with it. So you learn to pick it up
and use it when it's there in the right way. It's a brilliant tool The problem with anger
is that as children, when children get angry, you know, the terrible twos where they're angry about
frustration okay they're not angry about world issues or democracy. They're angry because you turned out of a red T-shirt
and they wanted a green one, and you've destroyed their world, or they're hungry and they wanted, I don't know,
an ice cream before going to bed, and all the things in the world says you shouldn't do that. They're
angry because you're destroying their world. So it's uncomfortable for us. We don't like to see our children angry, so
as a way of guarding that, we try to not let them be angry. We try to prevent that. come
on, calm down. You don't have to be angry and they learn that anger is a bad thing, and I
don't think anybody teaches us that out of knowing that they're not actually helping
the situation longer term. It's the best way of dealing with it as they see fit because anger
very often leads to terrible things. We don't very often do these terrible things when we're not angry.
You know, we just wouldn't do it. We wouldn't say those horrible words. We wouldn't say those
things that we learn to regret, those horrible names, or I would hope people wouldn't say it out of
calmness. There is people that do, but that's a different story, probably a different podcast. But on the anger side,
anger is what makes us do so many things at the spur of the moment because we're not used to
it. That child doesn't want to kick their mum, but they do it out of anger because they've got this
feeling of rage that's overwhelming them. It's a good thing sometimes. You need that overwhelming because if
you're going to stand there and try hugging the bear in the forest for 300 000 years you ain't gonna
do very well. oh, just stay calm. Don't worry about it. It's only a bear That doesn't work. But
sometimes we're almost the time we're not with that bear in the forest anymore. So
That word that we just look up and say and that moment that we make everything so much worse because
we haven't learned to deal with the anger. Anger is just information. Anger is telling us something. Anger comes
from a certain place Which leads me on to the bodyguard, because that's what anger is. Anger is
the bodyguard that steps in I'm gonna sort this. I'm gonna make sure this doesn't happen again. I'm gonna put
the justices right. I'm gonna make sure no one parks in my space or, how dare they do that? I'm
gonna make sure they don't say that again. How dare they betray us? How dare they treat us in that
way All of these things, and there's something softer underneath is anger is always
the second feeling. I cannot imagine I Please enlighten me in the comments or message me where
anger is not a second feeling,
because there's always something deeper underneath it,
a hurt, a fear of being unseen or something like that
jumpo has always taught us that beneath it there's a fear, a sadness, and a deep caring. You
care about something, and if you don't know how to fix the situation, you get angry. Fair
enough. I care about kids starving. I get angry about it when I see it on the Tv. Sometimes I
might want to turn the Tv off or turn it over because it's painful, and that anger just And I
think, what can I do about it And it builds, and is horrible and it's almost paralyzing But anger can
lead to the
most intense clarity And ultimately, no one can make you angry. Yeah.
Whenever I say that that there's always something in me, that little voice inside of me goes, really? Do
you believe that, Steven? Do you really believe that Well, I
think I do. When I think about it in the cold light of day, I do believe that. No one
can ever really make you angry. It's a feeling that is chosen after the feeling of
deep caring. There's a reaction. The reaction is yours. Now, here's the thing. Sometimes
we get so angry so quick, or we to stay on the edge of anger for so much of the
time that there's almost no time between what happens and when we're angry.
If you're always in that fight flight frame of mind, if you're always ready, if
you're living in a situation where things can go wrong very, very quickly, then there's very little time between
what happens and then the reaction. And I do it with my daughter because I'm emotionally charged when
it comes to my daughter and my family and different things. I'm much more likely to snap at them, shout
at them. I We had a bit of a disagreement about something last night, me and my parents, and we
didn't fall out or anything, but I got quite teasy. They got quite teasing was like Well we weren't shouting
at each other, but we were frustrated. I was feeling that they weren't respecting me, they weren't I won't be
heard But I wasn't thinking that at the time. I was just thinking, you're wrong, and I'm right But
I care deeply that they hear me, and they give me some credit for some of the
knowledge I know. But meanwhile, I wasn't doing the same to them. So again, it comes that back to
that deep caring about something. We care if someone says something. We care if the
words hurt.
So there is a gap between that spark and that fire.
It Doesn't have to lead to a full-blown argument. It can lead to, okay, I really care here.
What can I do about it? If there is something really practical you can do about it, take a step
back, go and do that. But it's very rarely practical to shout and scream. And see, this is where meditation
steps in. Meditation gives you a gap between what is arising, what you're feeling, what you're
seeing in this moment, what you're what I thought is, the train that arrives. So instead
of sitting there on the bench, going back to my analogy that I've used recently, if you're sitting on the
bench and you're not thinking about the trains and all that's coming in, the thoughts that are coming in, if
a train that you really don't like comes in and it triggers you, you're going to jump to anger straight
away. But if you're sitting there being aware that the train might not be one you like, that that person
might say something you're not going to like you can be ready and go, okay, it's not about me. It's
more about them We can be ready and go, do you know what? Well, I'm just not going to get
on that train.
I'm just not going to rise to this anger And we're all capable of it. This is what awakened mind
does, and you're all capable of it because me, you, and everybody you know has been able to
respond wisely
sometimes, or at least once. So therefore, you are capable of
wise response, deep heart mind as Mondo Zen would say, which is jimpo's teaching You
know, come from deep heart mind Don't come from the head that's angry or the heart that's angry. There's no
space there for wisdom. and there is a question that disarms this for them and yourself.
So if someone's really angry and getting in your face, if someone's really trying to make a point and
you're not listening, and you're trying to defend your position you're not So nobody's listening. If you're both defending, if
you're both coming out fighting, no one's listening. You know, there's no point in fighting your side if the other
side are not listening or they're fighting their side. There's no brain power for the two things. But what I
will say is you can look up and go, I see you care deeply Tell
me why. Tell me why it matters to you. You can say, look I'll shut up a minute, and
I know why it matters to me, but I don't know why it matters to you. Please explain And
I think when we do that, it just takes the heat out of the moment. It, it brings in a
bit of wisdom and a bit of heart and a bit of kindness and compassion.
You cannot meet anger with anger and expect everything to be okay.
Look at the political situation at the moment in the UK, in some of Europe, and in America at the
moment. We're meeting anger with anger.
We're meeting name-calling with name-calling.
We're meeting ignorance with more ignorance and more ignorance. Instead of going, okay,
why do you care deeply about this? What is so important about this
And I tell you what you'll find again and again, because I sit down and have a cup of tea
with members of,
like, Reform, which in the Uk are very much right of right, um,
and Conservatives and Green members. I'm a Liberal Democrat, so I'm kind of in the middle. And when I sit
down with them and we have a cup of tea,
if politics comes up, it's very often it feels like we're miles apart and we both want to defend opposition
And when you just say, explain to me why that matters to you or why you think that way
nearly always it'll come back to that caring. It'll come back to that
important reason, maybe from their past. Maybe they got a fear of the future or something. Maybe that car park
space down the road that they park in front of their house and don't like anybody doing that. I think
there's loads of places like that. I get loads of emails about people not being able to park in front
of their houses, and we've had a problem in this road for many decades. And I do think,
why is it important to them And sometimes it's because they might have a disability. Sometimes it's because
they're fearful of something and they need that escape route. Sometimes it's about nothing to do with the car park
space at all. It's about trying to show some authority because they haven't been listened to. Who knows?
The truth is everybody cares it's getting down to that bottom bit of what they care about
And finally, before I hand off for this week, and jim always used
to say this, and I think as time goes on, I understand it more and more. your angst is your
liberation So where we've got that tight knot, where we're angry, where we're
reacting instead of responding, that's where our liberation is. If we can deal with
the reaction by creating more space between what's arising and what we care deeply
about and our anger reaction, what we do with a hammer
Then ultimately we'll have a lot more peace in life
and we're a lot better conversations, a lot deeper conversations. We might actually realise that in politics
we're not that far apart.
We might actually realise
in whether it's race or all the other things, we might just like a certain type of food, but
ultimately we all care about kindness. We all care about love, and we all care about each other, and we
don't want people to die ultimately We
don't want people to suffer
And I think when we get beyond the anger and put the hammers down when we're using them in that
way, that's where things really start to change So, so here is what I will leave you with.
Your anger is not your enemy. It is a frightened part of you in armor doing
the only job it's ever learned keeping something soft from being hurt again. And it does not need
banishing. It needs hearing. It needs listening to. It needs understanding. And
the moment it is truly heard, it tends to lay down its armor. It
tends to stop fighting. So
next time the heat rises and we'll talk about the heat in the Uk and here at the moment, but
next time the heat rises, before you do anything with it, try one quiet question.
Not who is it to blame? Just
what am I really trying to protect?
And always remember Jumbo's line.
You only get angry about what you care deeply about.
So somewhere in there is something you love, something you care about. And the same for them.
I have recorded a short meditation to go with this one. It's over on Inner Peace Meditations, and it's called
Space Before You React.
A few minutes of practicing exactly this, finding the gap, meeting the heat, meeting the anger, meeting
that cinder or that spark before it runs the show, before it takes over. And
sit with it once or twice a day, or just once or twice a week It would do way more
than just talking about it. Understanding it philosophically, that's one thing.
Understanding it in your heart and living from it is a different different story. So
that is what your anger is really saying. I'm Steven? Webb, and thank you and everybody who keeps this going.
If you can, please follow the show and leave a review, especially on Apple or Spotify. That
really does make a huge difference. I do always get to read them. Might take me a little time, but
I do always get to read them. And thank you so much and take care. That Just be kind to
yourself. Be kind to your anger. Don't throw it out.
